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Collins of Crumlin, Co.Dublin

James Collins and Bridget Smith

Our Patrick Collins of Crumlin is probably son of James Collins and Bridget Smith.
It seems likely, but there are some issues.

Evidence for James Collins and Bridget Smith

The following is the evidence that our Patrick Collins is probably son of James Collins and Bridget Smith.

First, the mother of our Patrick Collins is called Bridget:
- Our Patrick Collins of Crumlin was buried in 1880 in grave Gf 123, GARDEN, in Glasnevin Cemetery.
- At that location we find the gravestone of Bridget Collins, mother of Patrick Collins of Crumlin. She died in 1856. Her burial record says she is buried in exactly grave Gf 123.
- So clearly she is the mother of our Patrick. He erected the stone, and later he was buried in the same grave. The gravestone was not updated.
Patrick Collins is probably brother of Rose Collins who married Toole:
- Next we consider James Toole, pawnbroker, who turns up in Patrick Collins family records in the 1880s. He is co-executor of Collins wills and informant at Collins burials.
- The most likely explanation is he is nephew of Patrick Collins.
- And indeed we can separately prove he is son of Patrick Toole and Rose Collins who married in 1839. Rose Collins must be sister of Patrick Collins.
Rose Collins must be from Rathfarnham parish:
- Rose Collins married Patrick Toole in 1839 in Rathfarnham RC parish. Her family must be from Rathfarnham parish (which would include Crumlin).
Patrick Collins has a number of likely siblings:
- "Micheal Collins" sp Mary's baptism 1837.
- "Margret Collins" sp Elenor's baptism 1838.
- "John Collins" sp Catherine's baptism 1840.
- "Saragh Collins" sp Saragh's baptism 1850.
James Collins and Bridget Smith fit all of the above:
- James Collins and Bridget Smith are from Rathfarnham parish.
- They are parents of a Rose Collins who was baptised in 1817.
- They have children Margaret, John and (the rarer name) Sarah. We did not find Michael.
- They have a son Pat, who would be our Patrick.
- Note that Rose Collins has a son James (after the grandfather).
- Various Smith family members sponsor the baptisms of Patrick's children.
- Conclusion: They are probably the parents of our Margaret, John, Sarah, Rose and Patrick.
Problems
- This theory does not however fit well with the ages given for family members at their deaths.
- First, the age on our Bridget's gravestone is age 95 (born 1761). That would make her age 47 to 69 when her children are born. Obviously impossible.
- Now it is true that the age on the grave could be inaccurate. Old people's ages were often exaggerated. But this age would have to be massively wrong. Realistically, Bridget Smith must be born 1780 or later, and then be age 76 or younger at death. So age 95 is really badly wrong.
- A lesser problem is that this theory has our Patrick baptised in 1812, so age 68 at death. His death and burial say age 77. Badly wrong, but perhaps explicable.
- Another lesser problem is that Patrick does not have children James or Bridget (after grandparents). But not everyone followed the convention.

The family of James Collins and Bridget Smith:

James Collins.

He mar pre-1808 to Bridget Smith.
Her children were born 1808 to 1830. So she must be born 1780 or later. Probably born around 1785.

Children bapt in Rathfarnham RC parish, Co.Dublin.
This large RC parish included Crumlin, where our Patrick Collins is found from at least 1836.
James Collins is not found listed in Crumlin parish in [Tithe Survey, 1827]. However he is not found anywhere else in the Rathfarnham area either, so this is not conclusive. He may be in Crumlin but unlisted.
James and Bridget had issue:
1. Margaret Collins,
  bapt 1808, Rathfarnham RC church, sp Morris Collins and Margaret Hacket.
  She must be "Margret Collins" who sp Elenor's baptism 1838.
2. Pat Collins,
  bapt 3 May 1812, Rathfarnham RC church, sp Simon Smith and M. Hackett. See entry from here.
  
  He must be our Patrick below.
3. Mary Collins,
  bapt 1815, Rathfarnham RC church, sp David Murphy and Mary Martin. And here.
4. Rose Collins,
  or Rosanna,
  bapt 23 Mar 1817, Rathfarnham RC church, sp Morris Collins and think Mary McNally. See entry from here.
  As explained above, she must be identical with:
  Rose Collins.
  "Rose Collins" sp bapt of her nephew Thomas Collins 1832.
  "Rose Collins" sp bapt of her nephew Andrew Collins 1834.
  She mar 1 February 1839 to Patrick Toole and had issue.
  They mar in Rathfarnham RC parish. Mar wit by Pat Collins and Mary Collins.
5. Kevin Collins,
  bapt 1819, Rathfarnham RC church, sp Andrew Collins and Mary Collins.
6. Sarah Collins,
  bapt 1821, Rathfarnham RC church, sp Mic McNally and Judith Carty.
  She must be "Saragh Collins" who sp Saragh's baptism 1850.
  She might be Sarah Collins who mar Edward McNally on 3 November 1856 at Rathfarnham RC church, wit Michl Grumley and Margt Collins.
7. John Collins,
  bapt 1824, Rathfarnham RC church, sp James Collins and Mary Smith.
  He must be "John Collins" who sp Catherine's baptism 1840.
8. William Collins,
  bapt 1826, Rathfarnham RC church, sp Martin Byrne and Marianne Fitzpatrick.
9. Ann Collins,
  bapt 1830, Rathfarnham RC church, sp Mary Quin.

For the reasons given above, James Collins and Bridget Smith must be identical to:

--- Collins.

He mar Bridget ----.
The age on her grave (age 95) would have her born 1761. But for the reasons given above, she was more likely born 1780 or later.

Bridget at her death 1856 was living in Crumlin, Co.Dublin (where her son Patrick lived).
Bridget dies, 1856:
She died July 1856. She died 24 July [grave] or 26 July [burial record].
She was bur Glasnevin Cemetery. Location: Garden, Gf 123. See burial entry.
Bridget and her husband had issue:
1. Patrick Collins.
  
  He must be the Pat Collins bapt 3 May 1812 above.
  Age given at death implies born 1803, but this must be inaccurate.
  
  Farmer and market gardener, of Crumlin, Co.Dublin.
  He is "Patrick" in most records. "Patt" in children's baptisms.
  Living in Crumlin by 1836.

Baptism of Pat Collins, Rathfarnham, 3 May 1812.

Baptism of Rose Collins, Rathfarnham, 23 Mar 1817.

Grave of Bridget Collins (died 1856) in Glasnevin.
Photo 2024. See larger and full size.

Miscellaneous Collins

Must be related:
- "Micheal Collins" sp Mary's baptism 1837.
Things to do:
- Images and full dates of all the baptisms.