Our common ancestors - Herbert - Contents

Herbert

In particular Herbert, Earl of Pembroke.
Herbert is listed as "Our common ancestors":

My wife has a spectacular descent from Henry Herbert, 10th Earl of Pembroke, so that line is done in great detail.
My descent from Herbert is quite different, and is uncertain. I descend through Blennerhassett from Mary Herbert. She is believed to be of the family that descends from the brother of the 1st Earl of Pembroke (of the first creation). But Mary's parentage is uncertain.

This family does not descend from the Norman FitzHerbert family

Genealogies have existed for centuries claiming to show the Herbert male line above Adam (born est c.1255), and in particular claiming descent from the Norman FitzHerbert family.
While that family did exist, [Clark, 1886] and others argue that these Herberts do not descend from them, and these genealogies were faked at an early period to show a Norman origin for the Earls of Pembroke.
Darrell Wolcott agrees, and argues that the true origin of Herbert is native Welsh.

We begin as follows.
The surname "Herbert" was not established until the children of Sir William ap Thomas.

Adam,
born est c.1255.
He mar Christian Ddu [dau of Gwarin Ddu, the "Black Lord" of Llandilo].
They had issue:

Jenkin ap Adam.
He had issue:

Gwyllym ap Jenkin ap Adam,
William.
He mar Gwenllian Ichon [dau of Howel Ichon].
He died 1377.
They had issue:

Sir Thomas ap Gwyllym,
4th son.
He mar Maud Morley [dau of Sir John Morley, Knt, of Llansantffraed Court, Llansantffraed, Powys, Wales].
Inherited the Morley estate, Llansantffraed Court, 1400.
He died 1438.
They had issue:
1. Sir William ap Thomas.

Arms of the Earl of Pembroke.
Above the tomb of the 9th Earl of Pembroke in Wilton parish church.
Motto: "Ung je serviray" ("I will serve but one master").
Photo 2023. See larger and full size.

References

PEMBROKE in [Complete Peerage]. Herbert starts on p.400.
PEMBROKE in [Burkes Peerage]
HERBERT in [Burkes LG]
George Thomas Clark, Limbus Patrum Morganiae et Glamorganiae (1886).
- Genealogies of families of the Lordships of Morgan and Glamorgan.
- "The family of Herbert" on p.250 and p.251 and p.252.
- Herbert of Coldbrook on pp.292-293.
The Herbert Family Pedigree by Darrell Wolcott, Center for the Study of Ancient Wales.

Sources yet to be consulted

Wilton papers (WSHC 2057)
Pembroke Estate papers
Earl of Pembroke papers (various archives).
The Herberts of Wilton by Tresham Lever, 1967. Also here. [CUL] 496.2.c.95.51.
Earls of Paradise by Adam Nicolson, 2008.
Herbert in Eton College Lists, 1678-1790.
Herbert on pp.265-266 of Eton College register, 1753-1790.
Herbertorum Prosapia, Cardiff Central Library, Ms. 5.7. This is a Ms history of Herbert family, by Sir Thomas Herbert of Tintern, c.1681.
The Pedigrees of the Herberts, earls of Pembroke and their descendants. [LDS] FHL microfilm 826552.

Herbert and p.2 and p.3 by Peter Barns-Graham