Evidence that Ellen lived at Dunmoylan before her marriage to Mangan
is that her marriage to Mangan is from Kilcolman, S of Dunmoylan
Her children by Mangan are later baptised at Kilcolman.
Later it is definite that she and Mangan are living Dunmoylan.
Ellen is listed in Latin as "Helenam O'Brien" (Ellen O'Brien) at 2nd mar.
Her 2nd husband Denis Mangan is later found at Dunmoylan though probably he only came there through marriage to her.
Ellen had issue by 1st husband (probably Kennedy O'Brien who died 1825):
Kitty Madigan (born 1901) told a Nolan family story of the time of the great faction fight at Shanagolden between the O'Briens and the Sheahans. This was in 1825. The leader of the O'Briens was Kennedy O'Brien of Dunmoylan.
The Nolan family story was that Kennedy O'Brien was in love with
James Nolan's daughter (and she with him).
But her parents objected.
[Donovan, 2010] says: "both her father James and her mother strongly objected to their daughter marrying beneath her "station"."
In fact, an 1825 report quoted in [O'Donnell, 1975] describes Kennedy O'Brien as "a wealthy farmer". So the objection is more likely because he was a faction fighter.
names "Mary" as the daughter,
and says that the parents
"refused permission for the young man to even meet their daughter Mary
or to enter the Nolan household.
However, the lovers planned carefully and on a night of a full moon,
Kennedy O'Brien rode his horse directly into the Nolan kitchen, .."
[the large kitchen at Waterpark House
had an arched doorway leading to the yard at the back]
".. grabbed Mary and rode off in spite of protest from her startled parents."
Tim Donovan now thinks "Mary" was just speculation, and finds the evidence that it was Ellen convincing. There was a daughter Mary, who married 1831 to Daniel Donovan. But there is no evidence it was her.
We know that Kennedy O'Brien died in the faction fight in 1825.
In one version of the Nolan family story, the abducted daughter married Kennedy O'Brien and had issue (i.e. the elopement was a few years before 1825).
In another version of the story, Kennedy O'Brien abducted her but was soon after killed in the fight.
It seems almost certain that the story is true and the daughter was Ellen. Reasons:
The big faction fight at Shanagolden was on Thur 2 June 1825.
says the story goes that after the fight,
one of the leaders (maybe O'Brien) was not dead.
He was lying injured, and a tinker woman, who held some grudge against him, came up to him and said: "Are ye not dead yet?" and hurled a rock into his stomach, and it was this that finally killed him.
Trial after the faction fight of 1825.
From Limerick Chronicle, Wednesday 3rd August 1825.
Fight scene from the movie Gangs of New York showing an Irish gang fighting in New York in 1846.
Probably gives some idea of what the Irish 1825 faction fighting was like.
Could this be Kate O'Brien around the 1860s?
This is [P106/1669(2)]. See larger and full size.
It is grouped with a probable picture of her half-sister Ellen Mangan.
The P106 catalogue groups both of them with some old O'Donoghue photos, but that seems unlikely. The other picture looks like Ellen Mangan.
This is an older woman. It cannot be one of Ellen's Mangan sisters, who were considerably younger than her. But it seems too young to be her mother. Most likely it is her half-sister Kate O'Brien.
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