Thomond - Thomond no.2

Thomond no.2

After making Thomond no.1, his first, non-commercial Thomond for his own use, James A. Jones did not try to make a business out of producing cars.
Such a business would be very hard to break into for such a small team.
Alan Hogan said: "Hand-made is for a Rolls-Royce".
John Wilkinson said: "That was no time to succeed in selling 'one-off' car projects and, I fear, however good the car, it was doomed from the start".

The first car, crude as it was, had impressed though, and impressed in particular Dick Humphreys, who saw the car in 1926.
Once he was established in his new tyre business, Dick asked Jones to build him a car to a personal specification.
In Dick's words in his 1963 article: "Always courteous and helpful, he agreed to what must have seemed a rather cool proposal".

So, in 1928, over 3 years after the construction of Jones' car, a second 'Thomond' was planned.

Thomond no.2 before modifications, at 36 Ailesbury Rd.
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Dick's Rhode

When Dick Humphreys saw Thomond no.1 on the 1926 24 Hours Trial, he was driving a Rhode.

Humphreys (Rhode) and Jones (Thomond no.1) in the 1926 24 Hours trial.
From The Motor News, 19 June 1926.

Dick and Alice Cashel in the Rhode, at Cashel House in 1926.
The families knew each other. Later, in 1929, Dick married Alice's niece.
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I had a note that Eibhlín remembered the Rhode as green, with gears written in chalk on the dashboard.
I wonder is this confusion with another car. She was born in 1911 and was only a teenager around 1926. Did she know the Humphreys family then? Her mother was in Cumann na mBan but I am not aware that the families met. She married Dick's brother in 1934.

Dick's Rhode, Connemara, 1926.
Looks like Dick on left and Alice Cashel on right.
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Left to Right: Alice Cashel, unknown, Steen O'Mara.
In the Rhode, Roundstone Harbour, Connemara, 1926.
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An unknown car at Cashel House in 1928.
Probably a later Bullnose Morris.
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See other copy. See other copy.

Back (Left to Right): Alec Spain, two unknown, Eileen, possibly Dick Lavelle, Una, Sheila, Dick Humphreys.
Front: Desmond Mc Loughlin, Eddy Lavelle, Maureen.
Green are the O'Mara girls.

Building the Thomond

So, in 1928, Dick planned the building of his own Thomond car at Jones' garage.

Firstly, Dick went to the 1928 Olympia Motor Show in London. This was held between 11 Oct and 20 Oct 1928. It was a big show, with 95 car firms from 7 countries. The Motor News reported it as "a sensible show", getting down to the business of selling practical cars. Trends were towards comfort, noise control, smoothness and efficiency. Many cars were phasing out running boards and chassis. The main exhibits included the tremendously popular Morris Minor, the tiny Baby Austin, and the new Lancia Lambda and Dunlop Fort tyre. Every car was rear wheel drive, except for the brand new front wheel drive Alvis.

One company on show was Barker and Co., whose exhibits included collapsible occasional seats. Dick was impressed with this idea, and adopted a Barker seat for use in his own novel seating layout.

Returning with armloads of motor accessory books, Dick spent a happy few months outlining and sketching his dream car. Early in 1929, the mechanical parts were ordered from England. Although the car had a high Irish content, especially as regards such things as bodywork and upholstery, most of its mechanicals were English, from companies such as Meadows, Ford and Rubery Owen. It was easy to import parts in those days before the Economic War (1932).

Tommy O'Brien, who worked for Dick at 36 Pearse St, remembered Dick ordering the parts. All the documentation for the parts came in to Pearse Street in 1928-1929, invoiced to Dick, delivered to Jones. Dick did all the drawings for Jones too. Work on the car continued throughout 1929, and Jones' chief mechanic Benny Parsons used all his skill and expertise in transforming Dick's complex plans into a well-finished motor car. Chassis work would have involved drilling holes to take various fittings, with bolt-on brackets for mechanical components and bodywork.

Thomond no.2 was completed in the late summer of 1929, well in time for Dick's marriage to Eithne O'Mara on 24 September 1929.
1963 article says he had the Thomond when Eithne was still his fiancée.

Reactions:

Tommy O'Brien, recalled the first day Dick brought the Thomond out, and showed it to Tommy outside Pearse St (1929). Tommy never rode in it, or even sat in it. He was not very impressed with the whole plan. He thought it was a mistake building a car rather than buying a car. He thought more of Dick's drawings than of the car itself.
Dick's sister Sighle was more impressed. She recalled the Thomond as very comfortable. She said it had a feeling of being very compact. She couldn't see anything wrong with it, "since he made it".

Dick married Eithne in Sept 1929. He did not however take the Thomond on honeymoon. He took a reliable Fiat on their Continental tour in late 1929.
Why? Eithne thought it might have been family pressure. (Maybe from her father James O'Mara.)

Dick's breakdown of costs in 1963 article.
See full article.

Specification

Body:

2 door, 3 seater touring coupe.
One small seat in at back.
Plywood and fabric Weymann-type body.
Small rectangular rear window. No rear side windows in the hood.
Chassis probably from Rubery Owen. X-braced channel-steel frame of very heavy gauge metal.
Just below the boot was the fuel tank, where the fuel gauge was located outside on the filler cap. Fuel consumption was 26 to 30 mpg.

Colour:

Its colours are listed in [Motor Reg] as tan and red.
The main colour appears to be red. Dick painted colours on a photograph. He painted the body dark red.
Dick's wife Eithne agreed it was red and tan.
Tommy O'Brien agreed it was red and tan. He remembered a 'dark maroony' red.

Engine:

Meadows 4ED engine. [Motor Reg] says engine built 1928.
Meadows were the favourite supplier of engines to quite a lot of small companies in those days, because of their reliability. They were a standardised off-the-shelf reliable component, purchased by the smaller manufacturers, and also by people building their own 'specials' and one-offs.
4 cylinders in line. 2 overhead valves per cylinder. 2 Solex carburettors.
Bore 69 mm (2.72 in) x stroke 100 mm (3.94 in).
Capacity 1496 cc. Compression ratio 5.6:1.
RAC horsepower (tax rating) of 12 horse power.
Brake horsepower of 48 bhp, probably at 4500 rpm.
Thomond letterhead, describes it as "12-48 H.P." 1963 article says 50 bhp.
Water cooled. No fan.
C.A.V. electrical equipment. Coil ignition with 12 volt C.A.V. dynamo. Also had starting handle.
4 speed gearbox.
Distinctive V radiator, made by Fletcher and Phillipson of 10 Lower Baggot St, Dublin.

Wheels and brakes:

After the rather ugly artillery wheels of Thomond no.1, the design of Humphreys featured lighter, better performance Dunlop wire wheels with tangential spokes.
5 x 19 in. Dunlop tyres. (Even though Dick was selling O'Mara tyres, he fitted Dunlops to both of his Thomonds.)
The 2 spare wheels were originally held on either side of the car, in dips between the front mudguard and the running board. Later they were removed and one wheel mounted on the boot.
Wire-operated 4 wheel brakes. 60 / 40 braking effect ratio front and rear.
1963 article says it weighed 21.25 cwts (1080 kg). Though [Motor Reg] says it weighed 19 cwts (965 kg). 49 / 51 weight distribution front and rear.

Logo:

'Thomond' written in flowing writing on radiator at front, angled on left hand side. Also 'Thomond' written in flowing writing on boot lid, angled on left hand side.
Later modification moved 'Thomond' at the front to position horizontal at centre.
Mascot was a version of the popular "Spirit of Triumph" mascot. The original was designed by Francois Bazin for Isotta Fraschini cars in apparently 1919. It was possible to purchase copies of it.
Later modification removed the mascot.

Registration:

Registered by Dick Humphreys as ZI 2100 [Motor Reg]. This is a Dublin city registration.
Dublin City is ZI 1 to ZI 9999 (Mar 1927 to May 1933).

An abstract of the [Motor Reg] records for Thomonds no.2 and no.4.
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The seating arrangement is described by Brian Hogan as 'cloverleaf'.
2 normal size front seats, with the small collapsible Barker seat semi-staggered centrally behind them.
The upholstery was a rather bright red leather.
A staggered seat idea was later employed by Dick's son Richard in his 1970s 'Thomond' design.

Sketch by Dick showing how the rear seat folded to give luggage space.
Note hinge. Note fuel tank location.
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Fletcher and Phillipson, 10 Lower Baggot St, who made the V radiator.
From p.1347 of [Thom's, 1928].
Street numbers are the same today. See modern street view.

Performance

Dick took delivery of his Thomond in the late summer of 1929. He recorded some very high speeds on his regular trips down to Cashel House, Connemara, Co.Galway, country house of his fiancée Eithne O'Mara's family. In his 1963 article he says: "Never having owned such a powerful car before I was thrilled to the core by its performance on the road, and many a time I would leave Dublin at 5 or 6 am to visit my fiancée who lived down in Connemara in those days, breakfasting at Cashel (near Roundstone) between 9.30 and 10 am. The 20 mile stretch between Kilbeggan and Athlone proved a very useful test and I usually covered this section in about 20 minutes, the best time was under 18 minutes on one particularly traffic-free day".

Dublin to Cashel is about 176 miles, so he was averaging over 40 mph for the entire trip, including the slow back roads of Connemara. The 20 miles in 18 minutes is an average of 67 mph. This was a very fast machine for its time. Traffic then rarely passed 40 mph.

1963 article says that the best running speed was 60-65 mph, and that the Thomond was once timed at just under 80 mph on the Phoenix Park Grand Prix circuit.

Dick also modified his car so that the thrill of its speed could be enhanced by folding down the windscreen. 1963 article says: "An attractive feature was that the windscreen could be laid flat, giving an aeroplane-like thrill which one misses completely nowadays".

The Kilbeggan to Athlone stretch on a map of 1900-1906.
It would have been little different in 1929.
Dick's 67 mph average would have included going straight through the town of Moate!

The map gives no date, but we can date it using railway lines.
It is after 1900 since the Waterford, Limerick and Western Railway has become part of the Great Southern & Western Railway.
And it is before 1906 since the Dublin, Wicklow and Wexford Railway still has that name.

When featured on a 1989 stamp, the Thomond was imagined at the Phoenix Park. Note the Wellington Monument. Apparently this was just luck, rather than a reference to Dick's article saying he reached his maximum speed there.

History, 1929-1933

Thomond no.2 was built in 1929, when Dick was unmarried and living in the family home on Ailesbury Road.
In late 1929, he married and moved to Sandymount with his wife.
He used the Thomond as his regular car for 4 years (1929-1933).
He drove 74,000 miles. This was a huge mileage in those days.
He was still living at Sandymount when he scrapped/rebuilt Thomond no.2 in 1933.

Dick was never content with one design, and continually carried out modifications and sketched on photographs of his car. His visible modifications on this car were, in order:

Removal of 'Spirit of Triumph' mascot.
Movement of spare wheel from side to rear of car.
Conversion of windscreen to enable it to be laid flat.
Addition of windscreen wiper.
'Filling in' of dips in side of screen.
Movement of Thomond logo from side of radiator (at angle) to front centre.
Removal of original front number plate and replacement lower down.

Photos of Thomond no.2

Thomond no.2 at Cashel House.
Left to right: Billy MacDonald (a friend), Sheila O'Mara, Eithne O'Mara, Cousin Bee, James O'Mara, Ruaire Lavelle (born Nov 1924), Pat Lavelle, Steen O'Mara.
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Someone wrote "1928" on back of photo, and that looks right by Ruaire's age. But Dick says car finished 1929.
Photo must be summer 1929.

Thomond no.2 before modifications, at 36 Ailesbury Rd.
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Thomond no.2 before modifications, at the front of 36 Ailesbury Rd.
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Thomond no.2 at 36 Ailesbury Rd.
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Thomond no.2 on the letterhead of Jones' garage.
Would be c.1930 (removal of the mascot being the only modification so far).
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Photo on same day. Unidentified man.
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Dick in Thomond no.2 at Sandymount.
He has moved the spare wheel from side to rear of car.
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Eithne in Thomond no.2 at Sandymount.
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Thomond no.2 (on left, with spare wheel at rear).
Unknown saloon on right (possibly a Model A Ford).
Cashel House. Would be c.1930.
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Thomond no.2, 1931.
Dick with Eoige (born 1930).

Thomond no.2, near Maam Cross, Connemara, 1931.
In the car is Eithne.
Car in background belongs to James O'Mara. It is a Studebaker, registration Z 1774.

The above picture, painted over by Dick.
This confirms that his car was dark red.

On holiday in Co.Kerry.
Dick with Eoige (born 1930).
Photo must be 1932-1933.
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Modifications that have been made:

Conversion of windscreen to enable it to be laid flat.
Addition of windscreen wiper.
'Filling in' of dips in side of screen.
Movement of Thomond logo from side of radiator (at angle) to front centre.

Thomond no.2, the final result, probably 1932-1933.
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See other copy.
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This is at the garage on Haddington Rd, with Jones on the right.
Modification made: Removal of original front number plate and replacement lower down.
Tommy McNamara and Brian Hogan said this is Haddington Road.
Mary Jones and Tommy O'Brien said this is Jones.

Another photo at Haddington Road.
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Dick scraps Thomond no.2 and rebuilds it, 1933

Thomond no.2 is officially listed as scrapped in 1933.
But it seems what actually happens is there was some damage to it, and it was totally re-built as a new Thomond, Thomond no.4.

Tommy McNamara, who worked on the saloon car, Thomond no.3, in 1930, remembers discussions of building a 'sports car' afterwards. Dick may have been thinking about doing a major job on his Thomond at this early stage, but he doesn't seem to have done anything about it until a couple of years later when circumstances forced him to.

It appears that Dick had a crash or major incident in his Thomond in 1932/1933:

Mac O'Rahilly, Dick's 1st cousin, remembered Dick crashing his Thomond during the winter of 1932/1933.
Mac's brother Aodogán O'Rahilly remembered Dick in the Thomond racing a Chrysler along what was then the Stillorgan Road. The Thomond drive shaft broke at the gearbox. Dick let go of the wheel and got under the dashboard before impact. Aodogán said it was an incredibly dangerous accident. But, as far as we know, Dick was not badly hurt.
Tommy O'Brien said he never heard of a crash around this time. Surprising that he didn't hear about it. He said Dick was never without a car anyway.

In any case, Thomond no.2 was scrapped. [Motor Reg] records say that Thomond no.2 (registration number ZI 2100) was officially scrapped on 17 Feb 1933. (An abstract of the record says 12 Feb in error. The record itself says 17 Feb.)

But then, from at least as early as around Easter 1933, a much different-looking Thomond appears in the Humphreys family photographs. The bodywork is different, and there is a new number plate, but underneath you can still see that much of the old machine remains. So it seems that what happened was Thomond no.2 was scrapped and re-built as a new Thomond, with a new registration number, Thomond no.4.

Aodogán O'Rahilly, Dick's 1st cousin, remembered Dick having two Thomonds - one after the other.

Dick writes about the end of the car in 1963 article.
He refers to the propellor shaft breaking, but he does not blame it on racing and he does not mention a crash.
He says the Thomond gave him "four of the happiest motoring years in a lifetime".
Four years is significant. It means he regarded Thomond no.2 as existing from 1929 to 1933.
But then what is that Thomond found in later pictures? He obviously regards that as a separate car.
See full article.